Federal Bureau of Investigation. "Transcript of Conference Call with Stanley D.
Levison, Andrew J. Young, Harry Wachtel, Clarence Jones, Cleveland Robinson, Wyatt
Walker and Walter Fauntroy." September 12, 1965.
Date Issued: September 12, 1965
Date Declassified: [1983]
Length: 8 pages
NOT Sanitized
 FULL TEXT
Time Initial IC
OG Activity Recorded
9:46 PM IC White 5061- 45 to end
Call to Stanley Levison, Conference Call from Martin Luther
King, Andy Young, Harry Wachtel, Clarence Jones, KLEVE
Robinson, Wyatt Waltston (PH) and Walter Thompson PH.
Hello This is Martin the only one missing is Buyard; Rustin
I want a little advise from all your destinguished wise
Americans.
Levison: Flattery will get you nowhere.
King: Well we are having a staff retrete down here in South
Carolina. I want to discuss the matter on my stand on Viet Naum
and the conference with Goldberg the other day.
I think you all know my view on the Wrongness of our Foreign
policy and my deep convictions and the truth of conscience
matter that it is. I don't mind being a Minority of
one as I have been but I am mindful of the critisism I
have been taken. I think we have to admit that what is
developing is that the Administration feels that I am going
too far and it is a battle with the Administration and I'm
absolutely convinced that the statement of Senator Dodd
I don't know if you read it. All say You are right about
what you said.
King: I'm convinced that LINDON JOHNSON
got DoDD to say this because I'm convinced that these are
his convictions and that the Administration and Pres Johnson
urged him to do this. I am convinced that the Press is
being stacked against me on this position.
I have already gotten unkind editorials on what I said.
The critisism that effects me more is the one that
says that I am Power Drunk and that I feel that I can do
anything because I got the Nobel Prize and it went to my head
and that the true motive of my statements are never revealed
and the statement that I am stepping out of my bounds.
No I really don't Have the strength to fight this issue and
keep my Civil Rights fight going. They have all the News
media and Tv and I just don't have the strength to fight
all these thing. I just don't have the strength to fight
these two battles and there has to be a real fight on my part.
I may feel a sense of guilt about the Civil Rights Movement
because this would take too much of my time to fight
this and I feel that I couldn't get the backing of the
Civil Rights leaders on my position such as Roy Wilkins
and Whitney Young. The other thing is the deeper you get
involved the deeper you have to go and take stands and
speeches and appearances and I'm already overloaded and I
almost emotionally fatigued.
We have to fact that sometime the Public
is not ready to Digest this truth.
Levinson: Like Stevenson on the Test Band.
King: You are exactly right and I think that these forces are
going to try to cut me down.
So what first of all can be done to give the National public
a realization of the fact that I am not out here alone
Second How to deal on the Dodd Statement, Third I would
like to get your opinion on the letters that I have
proposed writing to the leaders, of the various involved
nations. There again I have gotten Critisism and statements
that I am Meddling and stepping out of the area of my
ability. The Atlantic Constitution wrote an article
said I continue in this folly of this letter writing.
They call me the single most powerful negro leader in the
country and that I know I can't talk as an individual.
I also feel that that Ho Chi Min and Chu In Li are not going
to respond affirmatively regarding these letters
and that will make me look worse so I have to find out how
I can gracefully pull out so that I can get on with the
Civil Rights issue because I have come to the conclusion
that I can't battle these forces who are out to defete my
influence. They will take the communist China thing and
what Dodd said and use it to say I was under the influence of
communist and it may confuse some of our supporters and
our contributors, to SCLC. So these are some of the things
I want to speak to you on.
Harry Wachtel: Martin this is Harry and having
been present at the Goldburg Meeting and Having
heard what the Attorney General said about the Logan Act
but not having read the Dodd Statement. I don't think that
the letters have to be written any more. It won't
say anything more that what you already said to GOLDBURG
right?
King: That's Right.
Wachtel: So the issue is now whether the letter will
only excellerate the diversinary attact
which is being conducted including a persucation under the
LOGAN Act which you others might not know, the Attorney
General indicated there has been a lot of pressure to bring
whether they win or not. I don't think the letter is longer
necessary. Most People who talked to Me as Buyard told Me
including BOB MOSES were pleased with what you said.
You were a Fresh Voice. I agree basicall with your
position that the letters will only Drag the issue beyond
the point you have already made.
Clarence Jones: I separated the letters from the other
questions Martin has made. I agree with you Harry.
Wachtel: What the People feel is different from what the
Newspapers and the Politicians feel.
Jones: Yes Martin they could do you a great deal of harm
and I think you should abandon the writing of the letters.
Wachtel: Yes we should all agree and later work out how
it should be done and what machinery we should use later.
Jones: I do think you should continue in a balanced
way to express you conscience on the question on peace.
I think that when you feel you should speak out on international
problems you should do so as the winner of the Nobel Peace
Prize.
KLEVE ROBINSON: Did any of you hear Whitney Young today
He made a very viscious attacked on Martin. He said such
things as He wouldn't pretend to be as godlike as Martin"
I have no doubt that he has been poked by the Administration.
I don't think it would be wise to send the letters.
So now how do we get some of the sentiment of the people
which is not coming across but which the large part of the
people feel and agree with you. We have to do something
in a Hurry. We got to get everybody together.
I just can't see Martin not speaking out on this issue as part
and parcel of the struggle. If our nation continues to the
mad rush to war the Job at home can never be done which must
be done. If we go to war we will have more restrictions.
So I think Martin will find it necessary to speak out for
peace and continue with the fight at home.
WALTER Last Named Believed to be THOMPSON: I think Harry
you stated rightly about the letters and I think we ought to
get down the three points that Martin Wanted. First How
can we start to build support among the non Peacenicks.
Secondly: Deal how we gracefully withdraw from not sending
the letters and Thirdly: How while concentrating on Civil rights
we can maintain being against the Viet Naum War. Could
we just deal with those three.
Levison: I agree on the letters that they should not be sent.
The conception of the letters lends itself to arrogance,
I say this with having agreed with it originally.
Harry WachteL Without this form of things we would not have
gotten some of the people aware of Martin's feelings.
Levison: That is right: Martin's original approach was
not to go all out and is implied, he only intended to
express himself and did not intend to become a major peace
leader.
Wachtel: When GOLDBURG saw Martin he made it very clear
that Martin had every right and that it was a proper thing
for him to do. So the danger is that if we get him
too much support then it will put him in a position
that he will have to justify his position.
Levison: My theory is that Martin has gotten milage out of
what he said and now he has to be relevantly quiet on the
subject and on the surfact by being quiet he is not seeking
the roll of a Major Peace leader.
Kleve Robinson: The Times had a report from the Attorney
Generals office showing a slowing down of Voter Registration.
Wachtel: There are a couple of voices that haven't been
hard from WYATT?
WYatt: One of the means by which Martin can offset the press
is treat it as a matter of history and say that he has
made his view quite clear and has nothing more to say.
I'm soley behind Martin because Our Federal Government
LBJ and GOLDBURG are interested in the fortunes of the USA
in South East Asia, whereas Martin's Mo[ve] is a Moral thing
and of Human life.
Wachtel: Well Wyatt I don't agree with the last part.
when Martin spoke to the press he said that the Civil
Rights demand now all his time but they won't print that now.
The Three points that Martin made are there to Negotiate
with the Viet Kong, to halt the Bombing and to Recognize
Red China. These Points are there and he is not going to
withdraw from these points he made and he is not going to
repeat them. So he now requires as Stan Levison said
to do in civil rights that which tell everyone I have
spoken my part and I never purported to lead this struggle and
now I am back to my regular work.
Andy Young: I think that Senator Dodd and Whitney Young
somehow need to be confronted. Wachtel: Right but not by
by Martin. Levison: No not by Martin.
Wachtel: Right someone else must answer his detractors
whether it be someone like EDWARD DAULBERG (PH) or Spike or
YOUNG: I think the most effective critisism of Dodd
should come for the state of Conn., someone like
BILL COFFIN (PH) W[illegible] and Possibly LOU POLLICK
the dean of the Yale Law School. Wyatt you know all
those boys.
Wyatt: Yes I can get to them.
Levison: Who was the third man Andy:
Young: Rev: Dick BATTLES, and somebody for Yale who can
really jump on Dodd.
Wachtel: He's the Dean of Yale Law school Pollock and
a good friend of Goldberg. We should get one of them
and then let the one get the others.
KING: The average mind is not sofisticated enough to analyse
a statement and what it means if they did they would know
what DODD is and that he is the strongest supporter of the
FBI and its invasion of Privacy and the Unamerican Activities
Committee and an Extreme Isolationist and all that, but they
don't know that, consequently many people are mislead,
many good people who read this and would say yes MARTIN IS
going too far. Some negros would say this.
All I'm saying is that as a Citizen I have a right to say this
as a Moral leader to deal with a question that deals with
the survival of mankind. And as for admission of Red China
Uthant called for their admission just a little ago.
But when I say it they write about it.
Stanley Levison: A word of caution, while whatever is said doesn't
commit you, it put you in a position of where you have to
say more on the question.
Wachtel: And to speak again and again and again.
KLEVE ROBINSON: I wouldn't be afraid of that, what MARTIN
said is right all down the line and it may start a
movement among the people and nothing could be better.
He is now out there by himself that is the point now.
King: You say that KLEVE, I have read nothing to date
but things that put me out there alone or give
that impression.
Levison: All men have a right to speak out on matters of
life and death.
Wachtel: the Point is As andy said the man who spoke Dodd
must get a come uppettance too. Suppose Robert Kennedy
came out and said anything and the NY Times wrote and
editorial in support of a man having a right to make a statement
on important questions. So Martin I want to propose
that you could put to them tomorrow particularly on Mr. OAKS
as to what he is going to be doing about Dodd. I think
Oaks (PH) should be asked he writes this stuff in the paper.
Young: I think Harry if you go out and buy a paper you will
find something written about Dodd.
Wachtel: If so then part of our job will be done but
Andy it's always nice to have these thing happen
without effort but you know they don't
Young: Well I would say you should call Oaks in the
morning. I have already called and seen about "Christianity
and Crisis" writing an Editorial.
Wachtel: I sure will call tomorrow and I can do it unofficial
AndY Young: I think we need to keep a collection of these
support statements and do something with them in a one page
lay out.
KING: Now once the press takes a negative position to you
they are very slow to support you. I think these statements
will get very little play in supporting me.
I think there are some people that can get thru.
I think we should try to get to them. The man who said to
me at a lunchon a few days ago, That I appreciate all
you have done at Civil Rights and you have done this and that
and I appreciate you having the Courage to speak out
of Viet Naum and I hope you will not stop".
Now Wayne Morris is a man with convictions
and courage and can get press attention and we should try
to get him not to just answer Dodd but to make a positive
statement and we should get the three men in Conn. and
we should get someone to answer Whitney Young, like A
Philip Randolph. [illegible]ale How about Adam Clayton
Powell? Levison I would not get him I don't think he
is good.
Clarence Jones: I don't think Powell should be
Discounted I think one of a group he would be good.
Wachtel: I think Randolph Against Whitney young good he will
give it the pious touch and besides that we can get that
handled without going into detail. KLEVE; Buyard will
do it.
Stanley Levison: May I suggest Senator Mcgovern
he has been excellent on this question.
Young: What about FRANK CHURCH. Him to.
Jones: What about KENNEDY.
Wachtel: Not everybody is going to read Dodd verbatum.
Senator Morris and Gruney of Alaska have been
outspoken against the Administration in Vietnaum.
I raise the question of Kennedy: If he spoke out for you
would it do you any good.
King: I don't agree that I need to withdraw, I need only
need to withdraw temporarily.
Wachtel: You don't have to withdraw Martin just sit back and
let the bombshell you dropped have it's impact.
King: Let me suggest for you consideration:
I suggest that WYATT contact Bill Coffin, Lou Pollock and Dick
Battels have them draw up a strong letter to Senator Dodd
and have a press conference on that letter.
Wachtel: Martin tell him not to have a conference call
but line up Coffin first because Lou Pollock may not be
willing to take on GOLDBERG etc. These are very strange
times.
King: I think we should make it clear that Goldburg himself
said he did not share the views ...
Levison: Yah that's
right.
Wachtel: Coffin should be the first guy
then Pollock and then Battle will go along.
King: O.K. then Harry and Kleve get with Buyard early
and go over this whole conversation and then Buyard and
Kleve get to Phi; Randolph and he should have a press conference
too, directly answering Whitney Young.
Wachtel: Right we will get to him.
King: I think that Harry should feel out Bobby Kennedy.
Harry: O.K.
King: I don't think he will endorse the admission of Red China
but he may endorse my right to speak on it.
Wachtel: and non military solutions which is his
position.
King: Yah O.K. let's try him.
Let us also line up Senators Morse, Church, Mcgovern.
Walter can you do that:
Walter Thompson (H) Yes, I know Morse
Kleve Robinson: Morse may want to put into the record certain
things he could reply to Dodd on the floor of the senate
and put it in the record.
King: I think he will reply to Dodd.
Now the fourth point Harry you contact in the morning the Ny
Times. and Fifth Andy will contact the Christian Century
and I think it will come thru at this point.
Young: I think between Clarence and Stanley
could get thru to the Saturday Review, The Nation and Norman
Cousins, the Progressive.
Levison: Yes.
Wachtel: We don't want to become a National question.
King: I think we have as much right to become a national
Headline as Dodd did and I think that Lindon Johnson pushed
Dodd to do it. Now we can't wait to wednesday to do these
things. If I have to answer Dodd I'm going to do it in a
high moral tone.
Wachtel: Martin do you think there is a basis to turn to
Goldberg. He set up his meeting.
King: I think we have to tell these fellows that this is
an attempt to undermine the Civil Rights thru me.
Wachtel: Maybe Martin Dodd is acting for the Right wing all
by himself without the help of LBJ. I don't mind calling
Goldberg and suggest he might do something.
And if they are behind it let them at least know we don't
like what they are doing, and I can do that unofficially
because I was there.
King: What about Jim Farmer. Young: He will get better
coverage than Randolph:
King: I wouldn't mind talking with Roy. Wachtel: Yes
let Randolph talk to him. We can do this Dodds attack
like the J. Edgar Hoover Attack will be an attack on the
Civil Rights Movement. We can put him against the wall
on this.
Young: Well who can approach Roy:
Wachtel: I think Buyard and Phil:
Young: I'm going to pass it right back to James Spike (Ph)
Wachtel: We can get Buyard to talk to James FArmer.
King: Now about the Religious leaders.
I mean John Bennett the non [illegible], Lynold Neibert (PH)
Harold Barnapy (PHO and the Rabi in Chicago who went to
Viet Naum and the Catholic who went there.
Kleve: these are the very names that Buyard mentioned at
the meeting.
King: Yes Goldwater attacked me and Max Friedman I donot
know him they are all attacking me We have to start a letter
writing campaign from these key peoples. Wachtel Where will you be for the next few days.
Can we have a conference call tomorrow evening.
They agree on a call 11 Pm Tomorrow Evening. King is
going to be in Baltimore South Carolina telephone Number
803 524 4337.
Wachtel: Stay out of the press for the next
24 hours unless you have some Civil Rights news.
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