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Federal Bureau of Investigation. "Transcript of Conference Call with Stanley D. Levison, Andrew J. Young, Bayard Rustin, Harry Wachtel, and John Barber." September 28, 1965.

Date Issued: September 28, 1965
Date Declassified: December 15, 1983
Length: 6 pages
NOT Sanitized




FULL TEXT


Time Initial IC
OG Activity Recorded
1203 PM IC White 7039-17

Operator calls Stanley Levison with conference Call from Dr King. She has Bayard Rustin Andy Young John Barber Harry Wachtel and King:

John Barber is Kings New Executive Assistant just got in yesterday. Wachtel and Levison dosn't know Him.

King: I wanted to talk to you about two things. 1. The Main thing is the Viet Naum thing and the whole question of these letters and I have to do something about it either write the letters or not and get the reason for not doing it. We should put our heads together. I have one or two things for not writing them and do it by a press release and not be a conference 1. Say that after talking with my Lawyers I should consider the Logan act and that I would not do it because I would not want to violate a law that I knew nothing about in the beginning. The other thing is that the letters would not now serve any usefull purpose. See her I am trying to avoid critisism that I must now be forced to back up. I will probably get some of this critisism that Goldburg or the President got me not to write them.

Stanley Levison You could also say that in your judgment the time is not right and that you may wait and send the letters later if the occasion arises in the future. Then you would not be backing up at all but just waiting to see what time would be right. I think the Logan act approach is o.k. but I dont like making reference to Civil Disobedience.

Rustin: I don't like the Logan Act for another reason it is a stupid silly law and it should be broken by someone.

Wachtel: That Logan Act is and Anti Civil Free Speech section and is bull. I think to say that Martin did not know about it would cause people to snicker at Martin. Things change at all time Now we have the Kashmere and India thing, and Martins views have been fully expressed. What he has had to say has carried out his original purpose that he hopes for.

Rustin: I think we are debating the wrong problem. It is simple for martin to formulate the thing but that is not the main problem now people have forgotten the letters the letters were announced at a dermatic conference and to not talk about them just makes everybody conscious of the letters so just wait and when he has another press conference of importance then if they are brought up brush the question aside. To have a Press release or press conference on Viet Naum is a mistake because it does not relieve the pressure we want to release. We want him to be a Civil Rights leader.

King Let me give you another problem: I have got to Make a speech on the 15 Of Oct In Philadelphia celebrating the 50th Anniversary of the Womens Internation Leage of Peace and Freedom. I don't see how on that platform I could avoid talking about Peace and Vietnaum and Packastan. Newsmen of Philadelphia have already called me and the Group have pressured me for statements.

Rust: You have a bigger problem That is on the platform with you and I say you should not be there for it Im to be on the platform and I am Indisposed and so should you be. All those on hephone SAY that STANTON LYNN is a bad person to be with.

King Well I don't want to get in bad with LYNN he is a friend of mine.

Rustin: [illegible]o [illegible]ave I Martin I have signed a paper that young men should not go into the draft but my position is not like his. Lynn is in favor of tearing up Draft Cards and you are not. If Martin goes on that platform with STORNTON LYNN the newspapers will attack you to no end.

Wachtel: Could you get someone togo and read martins speech?

King: Well COBETTA could read the speech.

Andy Young: This may be an opportunity for Martin to clear the air on his thoughts of Peace.

Watchtel: I think it would look as if Martin is running.

Levison: Well there were two stories that defended Martin one was in the Bridgeport Herald and the other was in the Amsterdam News. The one point was that Martin had to speak out on Peace like he had to do on Civil rights.

Rustin: As I understand the last question is how far one was going to be drawn in on a debate of the peace question?

Wachtel: Yes but the Philadelphia engagement could be something that could trigger a larger problem.

Levison: I think Martin should remain basically a Civil Rights leader and not a peace leader.

KING I could always arrange not to get there until time just before the speech and leave right after so I would not have to answer his speech at all. One of the most scathing editorials I had seen was in the Philadelphia Inquire and I think that If I could get there and leave immediately and not have a press conference that I could serve the purpose.

12:33 PM IC Conference call continued.

Rustin: Well I think then the letters should be disposed of before the seppeh. The major question is that between now and the 15th. Levison: How do we know there will be something big in Civil rights so that Martin Can foucu his attention on it. Rustin: I think you make it, for instance the home rule thing in Washington DC. Martin could meet with some of the leaders there and go in and consult with Fontroy etc.

King: When would I meet with them all: I think I would have to talk with Walter Fontroy.

Rustin: I Walter is running for Mayor then It wouldnt be a good thing for Martin to come in.

JOHN BARBER (Atlanta) I spoke with Walter and he is going to withold his announcing his candicy until he can get a larger voter registration and unite the liberal groups

Wachtel: Hangs up.

Rustin: I think we should get a press release on the formula that Stanley made mention.

Andy Young: We have a big thing going here in Crawfersville Georgia an a school thing.

Rustin: I would say that the letters would have gotten fundimentally a play in your basic consept of civil rights.

King: Well the minute I make my statement the press will ask me if President Johnson or Goldburg asked me to do this or this. Or a question like are you doing it for headlines?

Levison: Well Martin these are not hard questions to answer.

King: I know but If I were convinced myself why I was doing it ... Lawrence said I was going to act out like I did in Alabama you know.....

Rustin: These people are not worth bothering about.

King Well I think a Press release would get it over Buyard could you do it.

Rustin: to Andy Young : I could do it but I feel that we should have a talk now on it and you Andy take notes and release it from there.

You could say you are not going to write the letters in Stanleys Formula but then we should give some other reasons.

Levison: Yes we could talk about the Packastand thing and the Un.N Roll in the cease fire and these were not present before.

Andy: Martin one reason was that at the time you make the statement the UN had not demonstrated that they could deal with a situation like Viet Naum and now with India you could say that there need not be letters written by you but that the YN need only be let to function.

12:47 PM IC (Conference call continued)

Levison: One thing is that Martin should not be made to seem that Martin is substuting himself for the UN. You could say that here is a Force in the UN operating how and it looks like all should support it.

King: I say that the first Paragraph should say as you said before Stanley: Levison that you had contemplated on writing the letters to serve a useful purpose but at this time the letters would not serve a usefull purpose and then go into the reason why.

Andy young: Yes Martin and your person reasons should be given that your motives were maligned.

Rustin and Levison say no dont do that.

Rustin: Yes and you can say that King had anticipated writing the letters for a usefull purpose but now new elements of the situation have arrived and it is not necessary at this time to send them.

King: Yah that dosn't say I will not or will send the letters.

Levison: Yes and the airing of the issue did serve a usefull issue and it did serve to show his roll in the situation.

King and Young agree.

Stan Levison: I think that would cover it.

King Now about this speech: I do not think I should directly answer the press but just to make a positive statement on vietnaum John Barber I wonder if you could do it. Gentlemen Mr Barber once worked for Mr Dodd he helped him write his speeches., I hope he didn't write that one he made on me. (all laugh.

Rustin: I frankly Martin do not like the notion that you are putting it in the terms of why Martin King has to speak out oh peace I think you could sue Stanleys approach that in the Civil Rights struggle the greatest enemies are not those against us but those who are silent and then switch it to the problem of 20,000,0000 keeping quiet and then you could appeal to the people to take a stand on Foreign policy.

Barber: Wouldn't this give the press a chance to criticize him.



Rustin: Well the reason the Pope dosn't get criticized is that he does not get specific.

King: Yes I thought I should be less specified. I think a moral statement is necessary at this time. This would show that my prime work at this time would be in the Civil Rights Struggle.

Rustin: Well would like to give a few points to be taken down 1 That additional reason why Dr king Wants to see peace is that there are grave problems of Hunger and Poverty all over this world and that when people are involved in War even though they may have money to do all of these things their money goes into the rates greatest conflict in their mind which is war. So when we have peace we can rebuild a democratic society. 2. The continuation of War obscures the needs of people domestically, it is that the extreme right in this country gets more and more power as war continues and the money which should really be use for the construction of housing and the distriction of slums and the building of quality intrigated schools is cut off, as Senator Stenis ( PH) has urged in the Senate. That's enough Stanley and Andy That should be developed a little more but that about what should be said in the speech.

SL : Yah.

MK: John I'll give you 2 or 3 basic points I wanted to have expanded, to give the press before I speak on the platform with Lynn.

SL: Martin can tell the press he don't share all of Lynn's views and doesn't want to discuss them now.

MK: Better still I can tell them I haven't had time to study Lynn's views and don't want to comment on them now.

BR: You mustn't get there while Lynn is speaking stay in your room until your ready to speak.

MK Should I say in this speech how wrong we are in Viet Nam, the public don't realize this, how immoral this is. I think someone should outline how wrong we are, uh I don't know if I'm the person to do this.

SL: Martin we've just gone over this and decided that your not the person to do this.

MK: O.K. I'll go along with this. O.K. then, John, Andy I'll be seeing you very shortly So long Stan, Harry.

1:05

Conference ended


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