Federal Bureau of Investigation. "Transcript of Conference Call with Stanley D.
Levison, Andrew J. Young, Bayard Rustin, Harry Wachtel, and John Barber." September 28, 1965.
Date Issued: September 28, 1965
Date Declassified: December 15, 1983
Length: 6 pages
NOT Sanitized
FULL TEXT
Time Initial IC
OG Activity Recorded
1203 PM IC White 7039-17
Operator calls Stanley Levison with conference Call from Dr King. She has Bayard Rustin
Andy Young John Barber Harry Wachtel and King:
John Barber is Kings New Executive Assistant just got in yesterday. Wachtel and Levison
dosn't know Him.
King: I wanted to talk to you about two things. 1. The Main thing is the Viet Naum thing
and the whole question of these letters and I have to do something about it either write
the letters or not and get the reason for not doing it. We should put our heads together.
I have one or two things for not writing them and do it by a press release and not be a
conference 1. Say that after talking with my Lawyers I should consider the Logan act and
that I would not do it because I would not want to violate a law that I knew nothing about
in the beginning. The other thing is that the letters would not now serve any usefull
purpose. See her I am trying to avoid critisism that I must now be forced to back up. I
will probably get some of this critisism that Goldburg or the President got me not to
write them.
Stanley Levison You could also say that in your judgment the time is not right and that
you may wait and send the letters later if the occasion arises in the future. Then you
would not be backing up at all but just waiting to see what time would be right. I think
the Logan act approach is o.k. but I dont like making reference to Civil Disobedience.
Rustin: I don't like the Logan Act for another reason it is a stupid silly law and it
should be broken by someone.
Wachtel: That Logan Act is and Anti Civil Free Speech section and is bull. I think to
say that Martin did not know about it would cause people to snicker at Martin. Things
change at all time Now we have the Kashmere and India thing, and Martins views have been
fully expressed. What he has had to say has carried out his original purpose that he
hopes for.
Rustin: I think we are debating the wrong problem. It is simple for martin to formulate
the thing but that is not the main problem now people have forgotten the letters the
letters were announced at a dermatic conference and to not talk about them just makes
everybody conscious of the letters so just wait and when he has another press conference
of importance then if they are brought up brush the question aside. To have a Press
release or press conference on Viet Naum is a mistake because it does not relieve the
pressure we want to release. We want him to be a Civil Rights leader.
King Let me give you another problem: I have got to Make a speech on the 15 Of Oct In
Philadelphia celebrating the 50th Anniversary of the Womens Internation Leage of Peace
and Freedom. I don't see how on that platform I could avoid talking about Peace and
Vietnaum and Packastan. Newsmen of Philadelphia have already called me and the Group
have pressured me for statements.
Rust: You have a bigger problem That is on the platform with you and I say you should
not be there for it Im to be on the platform and I am Indisposed and so should you be.
All those on hephone SAY that STANTON LYNN is a bad person to be with.
King Well I don't want to get in bad with LYNN he is a friend of mine.
Rustin: [illegible]o [illegible]ave I Martin I have signed a paper that young men should
not go into the draft but my position is not like his. Lynn is in favor of tearing up
Draft Cards and you are not. If Martin goes on that platform with STORNTON LYNN the
newspapers will attack you to no end.
Wachtel: Could you get someone togo and read martins speech?
King: Well COBETTA could read the speech.
Andy Young: This may be an opportunity for Martin to clear the air on his thoughts of Peace.
Watchtel: I think it would look as if Martin is running.
Levison: Well there were two stories that defended Martin one was in the Bridgeport Herald
and the other was in the Amsterdam News. The one point was that Martin had to speak out on
Peace like he had to do on Civil rights.
Rustin: As I understand the last question is how far one was going to be drawn in on a
debate of the peace question?
Wachtel: Yes but the Philadelphia engagement could be something that could trigger a
larger problem.
Levison: I think Martin should remain basically a Civil Rights leader and not a peace leader.
KING I could always arrange not to get there until time just before the speech and leave
right after so I would not have to answer his speech at all. One of the most scathing
editorials I had seen was in the Philadelphia Inquire and I think that If I could get
there and leave immediately and not have a press conference that I could serve the purpose.
12:33 PM IC Conference call continued.
Rustin: Well I think then the letters should be disposed of before the seppeh. The major
question is that between now and the 15th. Levison: How do we know there will be something
big in Civil rights so that Martin Can foucu his attention on it. Rustin: I think you
make it, for instance the home rule thing in Washington DC. Martin could meet with some
of the leaders there and go in and consult with Fontroy etc.
King: When would I meet with them all: I think I would have to talk with Walter Fontroy.
Rustin: I Walter is running for Mayor then It wouldnt be a good thing for Martin to come in.
JOHN BARBER (Atlanta) I spoke with Walter and he is going to withold his announcing his
candicy until he can get a larger voter registration and unite the liberal groups
Wachtel: Hangs up.
Rustin: I think we should get a press release on the formula that Stanley made mention.
Andy Young: We have a big thing going here in Crawfersville Georgia an a school thing.
Rustin: I would say that the letters would have gotten fundimentally a play in your basic
consept of civil rights.
King: Well the minute I make my statement the press will ask me if President Johnson or
Goldburg asked me to do this or this. Or a question like are you doing it for headlines?
Levison: Well Martin these are not hard questions to answer.
King: I know but If I were convinced myself why I was doing it ... Lawrence said I was
going to act out like I did in Alabama you know.....
Rustin: These people are not worth bothering about.
King Well I think a Press release would get it over Buyard could you do it.
Rustin: to Andy Young : I could do it but I feel that we should have a talk now on it and
you Andy take notes and release it from there.
You could say you are not going to write the letters in Stanleys Formula but then we
should give some other reasons.
Levison: Yes we could talk about the Packastand thing and the Un.N Roll in the cease fire
and these were not present before.
Andy: Martin one reason was that at the time you make the statement the UN had not
demonstrated that they could deal with a situation like Viet Naum and now with India
you could say that there need not be letters written by you but that the YN need only
be let to function.
12:47 PM IC (Conference call continued)
Levison: One thing is that Martin should not be made to seem that Martin is substuting
himself for the UN. You could say that here is a Force in the UN operating how and it
looks like all should support it.
King: I say that the first Paragraph should say as you said before Stanley: Levison that
you had contemplated on writing the letters to serve a useful purpose but at this time
the letters would not serve a usefull purpose and then go into the reason why.
Andy young: Yes Martin and your person reasons should be given that your motives were maligned.
Rustin and Levison say no dont do that.
Rustin: Yes and you can say that King had anticipated writing the letters for a usefull
purpose but now new elements of the situation have arrived and it is not necessary at
this time to send them.
King: Yah that dosn't say I will not or will send the letters.
Levison: Yes and the airing of the issue did serve a usefull issue and it did serve to
show his roll in the situation.
King and Young agree.
Stan Levison: I think that would cover it.
King Now about this speech: I do not think I should directly answer the press but just to
make a positive statement on vietnaum John Barber I wonder if you could do it. Gentlemen
Mr Barber once worked for Mr Dodd he helped him write his speeches., I hope he didn't
write that one he made on me. (all laugh.
Rustin: I frankly Martin do not like the notion that you are putting it in the terms of
why Martin King has to speak out oh peace I think you could sue Stanleys approach that
in the Civil Rights struggle the greatest enemies are not those against us but those who
are silent and then switch it to the problem of 20,000,0000 keeping quiet and then you
could appeal to the people to take a stand on Foreign policy.
Barber: Wouldn't this give the press a chance to criticize him.
Rustin: Well the reason the Pope dosn't get criticized is that he does not get specific.
King: Yes I thought I should be less specified. I think a moral statement is necessary
at this time. This would show that my prime work at this time would be in the Civil
Rights Struggle.
Rustin: Well would like to give a few points to be taken down 1 That additional reason why
Dr king Wants to see peace is that there are grave problems of Hunger and Poverty all over
this world and that when people are involved in War even though they may have money to do
all of these things their money goes into the rates greatest conflict in their mind which
is war. So when we have peace we can rebuild a democratic society. 2. The continuation of
War obscures the needs of people domestically, it is that the extreme right in this
country gets more and more power as war continues and the money which should really be
use for the construction of housing and the distriction of slums and the building of
quality intrigated schools is cut off, as Senator Stenis ( PH) has urged in the Senate.
That's enough Stanley and Andy That should be developed a little more but that about
what should be said in the speech.
SL : Yah.
MK: John I'll give you 2 or 3 basic points I wanted to have expanded, to give the press
before I speak on the platform with Lynn.
SL: Martin can tell the press he don't share all of Lynn's views and doesn't want to
discuss them now.
MK: Better still I can tell them I haven't had time to study Lynn's views and don't want
to comment on them now.
BR: You mustn't get there while Lynn is speaking stay in your room until your ready to speak.
MK Should I say in this speech how wrong we are in Viet Nam, the public don't realize this,
how immoral this is. I think someone should outline how wrong we are, uh I don't know if
I'm the person to do this.
SL: Martin we've just gone over this and decided that your not the person to do this.
MK: O.K. I'll go along with this. O.K. then, John, Andy I'll be seeing you very shortly So
long Stan, Harry.
1:05
Conference ended
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