Federal Bureau of Investigation. "Transcript of Conference Call with Stanley D. Levison,
Andrew J. Young, and Cleveland Robinson." February 18, 1967.
Date Issued: February 18, 1967
Date Declassified: December 20, 1983
Length: 7 pages
NOT Sanitized
 FULL TEXT
Time Initial IC
OG Activity Recorded
12:13 PM IC R-1750-3. IC to STAN a confidential
call, from MARTIN LUTHER KING in Miami. Also on [line]
were one CLEVE, innNew Rochelle, one ANDY.
MARTIN called the conference because he wants to feel them
out on where "we" are going. He says the issue is that
BEVAL is working more with the peace movement and is
talking of a march to the UN on April 15. M. wants to
know how far do "we" go on the peace thing. He has almost
reached conclusion that we are marking time in the battle
of the ghetto with the war in Viet Nam going on. He
has just read the article in Ramparts Magazine re Children
in Viet Nam. It has aroused M. He feels he must do more
on war in V-N. Feels he is on the sidelines in the peach
issue. He wants the thinking of the group particularly
re the BEVAL thing on April 15th. Stan says he has always
agreed with M. on his views re peace but he doesn't like
idea of M. plunging into peace as he feels M's
strength to peace movement would be in his leadership in
rights movement. S. is afraid M. will lose status if he
becomes prominent in peace movement and will then be in-
effective in both movements. He cites BEVAL as an example.
B. is really a nothing--walked out on rights to become
peace leader and is not impressive, who does he speak for
if he is not a leader. CLEVE says that rights must take
a different course--we are coming to grips with naked
reality--that economically we haven't make progress--it
hasn't cost the nation any money--we need substantial funds
from the government and they won't be coming as long as
we have Viet Nam. CLEVE thinks we should be in the
peace movement. thinks that before M.
calls a peace conference on V-N he should touch bases
with Baptist ministers in NY, Chicago, and Atlanta, etc.
and discuss this as a moral issue so that it is not just
M. going to UN but all negroes who have been with us thru
the years. STAN said we agree with you, CLEVE, M.
has made same statement to the Senate committee re lacks
of money if V-N continues. M. says he knows BEVAL.
B. has claimed in past he has led M. on occasions. But
M. says he, M., is influenced by the moral issue
says America is morally bankrupt--lost its humaneness.
Some go along just because they are ignorant.
M. said the peace movement will require masses of people
to be effective and is wondering just how to go about getting
the masses. M. feels that one way to re-assert his
leadership is by standing up for major issues in the
V-N issue. said he agreed with M.
REUTHER has taken issue with MEANEY, etc. be-
lieves a number of personalities could be assembled
if M. approaches ministers in N. Y. Some would join him
especially the negro churches. M. said there is more
discontent in the negro community than most people realize
and that he gets more cheers in negro colleges when he
opposes War in V-N than he does when he talks about rights.
He says they go wild about the V-N issue. M. said
people like ROY WILKINS can't come out against V-N--at least
he will not-- M. said many liberals need leadership.
M. said he is concerned whether he should limit his
leadership to US or assume a role in the world--said
our allies are not with us re V-N. STAN said he thinks
M. can be effective by putting his influence to work
on the WALTER REUTHER's, the BOBBY KENNEDY's, etc.
rather than becoming a small time peace leader.
M. said he will be in NY for a speech on March 5, Sunday,
and will stay over Monday the 6th to talk about this --
a meeting of the research committee. CLEVE excused himself
from conference call at this point--has to leave. tells M.
he has collected money for HANDLER and sent it to JAMAICA.
STAN said he doubted if M.
would carry great negro masses to peace movement. People
on left can always get the Madison Square Garden filled and
can get marchers on 5th Avenue, only to be ignored. Thinks
if progress is to be made in changing policy it must be
done by alliance with people who have real weight, politically
M. thinks it could be done but also thinks clergymen white
and negro need leadership and believes they could be
mobilized but he wants to avoid the traditional "peacenik".
He suggests approaching those who are disenchanted with
US policy and suggests JOHN BENNET as an example. Says
t[h a]re those who are Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish.
STAN thinks that M. would lose as much as he would gain in
the ghetto. Thinks M. ought to get in touch with REUTHER.
ANDY thinks that a contact with REUTHER would be more
effective than the April 15th rally.
MARTIN I'm not so sure, there must be more than [that]
statement- you must have mobilization behind you.
Andy You could make the contact and have a prepared statement
for the press when you come from the contact with REUTHER.
Martin You have to masses behind you before you can
go to the president.
ANDY you have have the ghettos mobilized. thats where the
masses of people have to be mobilized.
Martin I agree, I could make a series of speeches on Viet
Nam. I could urge young men both white and black
not to avoid the draft but to become conscientious
objectors because this war is so evil because our nation
has become so insensitive about what it is doing that I
will begin going through the ghettos, through the
universities urging young men not to accept the draft. I
could do that, that would be news but it would be away
over on page 30 or something.
Andy Not if you go to LYNDON JOHNSON and inform him- that
you are breaking with the administration that you are going
to start organizing people against his policy on Viet Nam.
Martin I could see that.
ANDY You would be going to JOHNSON not just to talk to him
out to inform him you and Walter Ruether are launching this
campaign among the labor movement and civil rights because
of the moral problems of the war and helping him see that
you feel the forces of militarism are so dominant that it
is necessary to build up an equal and massive force for
peace on the other side.
Martin could see that.
Andy That announcement that you are going to
organize against military service. Bevel makes the point
that the Africans make that everywar from now on will be
against negro people.
Stan We all know this but the thing is to find the most
effective role Martin is to play.
Martin I agree. Students are against the war in Viet Nam
the more you keep it alive the more you turn other people
against it and LYNDON and none of them cant stand this
constant bombardment, I think there is need for this
development, I see it as tying the peace movement to
the civil rights movement or vice versa. I dont see getting
out of civil rights but we could be much more successful
if we could get the peace people to do it, to cooperate, to
have a march on Washington around the cut backs in the
poverty programs. All the communities are mad because they have been
back. You still have a civil rights issue. The break with
the administration is the difference and that is the point
we have to come to.
Stan If you come to it Andy, come to it with some other
strong forces that are doing the same thing. ROBERT KENNEDY
is supposed to be preparing a statement now on VIET NAM
on the peace negotiations. According to yesterdays dope
story, he is ready to make a break with the administration.
I dont know if this is true or not but if so it would be
significant. I see MARTIN as more a figure like that than
a NORMAN THOMAS or BENJAMIN SPOCK, because MARTIN has a
constituency and even though MARTIN is idealogically ahead
of those guys. He has to find out what they are doing,
where they are going and try and push them along. W.
RUETHER has not come out forth rightly against the war.
If MARTIN had the opportunity to sit down with RUETHER
and move him along the right lines he would be making a
much greater contribution than if he brought a few thous-
and negroes into a march and I dont think he will bring
25,000 negroes out of Harlem on a march.
MARTIN I agree.
Stan They have problems too, they have been influenced by
LEROY WILKINS that they better not do anything too harsh
that the administration wont like or they will lose the
advantages they got, so we have to be realistic as to how
many will move and how fast. We have to think through how
effective you will be and where. You have to retain your
support, move them forward, and move others forward. This
peace question will be solved when these forces, like the
Javits, the Kennedys, the Flubrights and the others have
themselves found a direction and a kind of organization
that makes them more effective. It is there that I think
you can play a much greater role. I think you will move ten
times as many negroes if you are associated with the
Kennedys, the Ruethers, and the Fulbrights than you will move
if you are associated with NORMAN THOMAS, and SPOCK. Most
negroes really dont know who they are. You should see
Walther Ruether so we can find out why he made this move
especially if he is going to find himself objectively or
even formally aligned with the Teamsters. You would have a
whole new trade union center then, with a different policy.
That kind of grouping can certainly have an alliance with
the civil rights movement.
MARTIN We should consider what this means. We would
probably lose the FORD FOUNDATION.
ANDY I think we have to get this proposal in. Even if
we lose the grant I think we will get it back any way.
STAN un, huh.
ANDY They almost got to give us some money unless we got
caught up with something crazy.
STAN Thats waht worries me about BEVEL. He gives the
impression that when he speaks he is speaking for MARTIN
I dont like us being associated with some one whose
mental stability none of us have confidence in. We should be
very carefully about this.
MARTIN I'll just tell BEVEL we are going to have this
RESEACH COMMITTEE on the 6th and I will have to hold up
any decison until that time.
Andy We going to have a staff meeting Monday?
Martin I asked BEVEL to come on down for that but
dont know if he will.
STAN on this Research Committee, I notice RALPH tends to
follow BAYARD. HARRY WACHTAL follows BAYARD, then he listens
to you then generally agrees with you.
Martin You are saying its not research its politics.
STAN Right.
Martin Thats all right, I like different opinions, I come
to my conclusion anyway.
STAN I am just saying that since the positions are known
in advance could we get some one who could give more light
new insight. I would like you to talk to RUETHER before
any meeting on the 6th. I would like you also to talk to
BOBBY KENNEDY. No of us know what is going on in their
minds. The decisions they make are terribly important. I dont
what BAYARD to tell me what is in their minds, I dont
believe him.
MARTIN I dont see how it is possible on the basis of my
schedule. Between the 1st and the 6th I'll be making
speeches. Going to preach on the first Sunday- go to California [the]
weekend of the 25th and 26th. Got one or two speeches at
colleges that week, which will make it impossible for me to
see them before the meeting, unless I could see BOBBY KENNEDY
the morning of the 6th.
ANDY I would rather you see RUETHER the morning of the 6th
could I see if he is going to be on the East coast the
morning of the 6th.
KING You could do that.
STAN LEVISON I agree with Andy. I think it would be very
important to see Ruether. If it couldn't be worked out with
WALTER RUETHER, Maybe it could be worked out with ROY
RUETHER.
KING Isn't VICTOR the one in International relations.
VICTOR was the one quoted about the C.IA. and the A F of L-
CIO.
LEVISON Then it is VICTOR - he seems to have the sharpest
position on the question and he would know what is
motivating ROY RUETHER and what way he would go.
VICTOR RUETHER would not be as good as talking to ROY but
it would be useful for us to know what is going on in this
very important area.
ANDY I will have to run, I have to catch a plane to New
Orleans, I'll be in my folks house.
KING Can I get both you and HERMINE on a conference call
to see what proceedure we will follow for the next week as
the deadline is coming now.
LEVISON Did you get two packages.
KING YEAH, but I haven't opened them yetm but both are from
you.
LEVISON That is the revised version of the first section.
KING And then where do we go from here.
LEVISON Yes, a first draft-no entirely complete. You should
read those before there is any discussion with HERMINE.
KING Oh, maybe I will wait until tomorrow and then call
tomorrow afternoon. I dont get to ATLANTA until about 2:00
and I'll call about 5:00 PM. Will you be available.
LEVISON Yes, If you have any question about the direction
the material takes, talk to me first, and then we can
talk to HERMINE.
KING. YEAH, she doesn't have that material.
LEVISON I have a strong feeling she is troubled by the first
chapter. It is so alien to her way of thinking that
I think we could have a very confused discussion
because I think she wants you to water the whole thing
down. She made a remark to me that the chapters that you
have been sending through still contain the odd point of
view you hold that the white people are responsible for
this condition. I know you do hold that odd position. She
cannot get off the hook, you know, you really should say
Negroes are responsible along with whites. We have to have
a clear understanding first of what has got to be in there
before talking to her because HERMINE'S role is to be an
editor and what she wants to to is to influence the
basic thought of the book.
King O.K I'll go through it and call you tomorrow around
5:00 PM.
LEVISON Call me first.
KING Call you first and then we will put in a conference
call.
LEVISION YES. O.K. so long MARTIN.
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