Federal Bureau of Investigation. "Transcript of Conference Call with Stanley D. Levison and
Harry Wachtel." April 9, 1967.
Date Issued: April 9, 1967
Date Declassified: [1983?]
Length: 5 pages
NOT Sanitized
 FULL TEXT
Time Initial IC
OG Activity Recorded
5:35 PM IC White 2956-18-20
CONFERENCE CALL to STANLEY LEVISON From MARTIN LUTHER KING
and HARRY WACHTEL conference Operator says that they
cannot reach HARRY WACHTEL and they will call back later. End
KING: I just want to talk about that speech: Have you
and harry been able to talk about it yet:
LEVISON Yes.
WACHTEL: There was a hesitation on COMMENGERS part to write
to the TIMES. I got this thru BENNETT : I told BENNETT to
TALK TO HESCHEL who was ready to act. RABI HESCHEL called
me this morning upset that he was prepared to go forward
and any attack on you is an attack on him etc.
He did authorize me to expand his answer that your analogising
is not comparing american Policies to Hitlers policies.
he says that I could write his answer.
BENNETT last night urged us to have this reprint in time for
the raley it should be a pamphlet given to the people
as DR. KING speaks on Viet Nam. He now fells that it is
a necessity. RABI HESCHEL wondered if he can still convince
you to pull out. He thinks that American indians marching
in the parade as the first victims of American Genicide
pulls down the parade and he wants you to restrain the
parade in the things that are done in your name.
Dr. Bennett asked me about you becoming a Co-Chairman in
the CONCERNED CLERGY he said he would be thrilled if you
would. He says this would make you more connected with
laymen and clergy. Stanley and I think it would be Great if we
could get you invited to See the PoPe in the future.
KING: I do not know where to start.
LEVISON; Well start on the POPE.
KING: Well it would be about Time I think I could go in
September.
WACHTEL: Well im talking about 72 hours get you to Italy
and then to the POPE. We thing "STANLEY and I" that you should
have some correspondence with the pope in the way of a personal
letter.
LEVISON; Well lets pass that by for now we will
firm that up later. Now about becoming Chairman or CO Chairman
of the CONCERNED CLERGY.
KING: I should make it clear to them that I will not be able to
make all the meetings because most of them are in NY I could
send a representative.
WACHTEL; Well from the telephone conversations they don't expect
yo to be in touch all the time.
Now do you think STAN politically speaking that this should
be done after or before the junket.
LEVISON; I say before because after it would probably be some
lost. So if it is announced before it will be good all around.
WACHTEL: O.K. I will talk to you STANLEY.
KING: I don't think we need a press conference.
LEVISON: No the committee would send out the release.
WACHTEL; Now the answers or the questions and answers being
published in the pamphlet.
KING: that's good.
WACHTEL: Now that is not an answer by you MATIN.
KIng: Yah I Now.
WAChTEL: We will work out an answer and the
real tirick is to get COMMENGER to write it and I will call you
tonight STANLEY and work on it.
Now if we can get the tihing to the Off set by Wednesday Morning
we can get it out by Friday evening and LUCY has rounded
up 50 kids t sell it for 10 cents a piece. It will look like
the Nation with a self cover and It will be a title like
"D" KING SPEAKS ON THE WAR IN VIETNAUM. On the back will
be a box for SCLS.
KING: How much will it cost to print.
WACHTEL he did not tell me but you don't have to worry
MARTIN because we will send them to Colleges etc.
The real question is can or should it include your speech for
Saturday. Now a problem is that if the audience gets Martins
Speech Saturday then STOKLEY and others will be answering
him.
LEVISON; I think it is better for MARTIN to speak before
KING: I do not want to be in a position of answering
STOKLEY aor be in a position of being more militant or as
militant as STOKLEY and the people are fresher
LEVISON; Now back to the point of including the speech.
I have a bigger point. Now there will be repretition
of the speeches. Now Martin is going to California Tuesday
night and he should have the speech by then.
So we don't have till the end of week.
KING Will we still put it in the NY times?
WAchtel and LEVISON; Yes.
WACHTEL. Now we can put one or two pages out on why the
pamphlet is being published.
LEVISON: It c be a preface.
KING: What about another person writing an intruduction.
I was thinking of RHEINGHO NEIBOR (PH)
Levison: MARTIN SHOULD NOT BE suggesting him when you (WACHTEL
talk to BENNETT.
LEVISON; Make the introduction about 1 1/2 pages.
They discuss getting NEIBOR to say certin things.
WACHTEL; I will get him but I can't make him say certain
things.
LEVISON; Well MARTIN I read the Re print of the Los Angeles Spe[illegible]
and I think it was in the main the best.
WACHTEL; if the Parables are omitted.
LEVISON: yes.
WACHTEL; I think that MARTIN has to deal with what the
TIMES and POST raised yesterday.
KING: I can't be just concerned for the Injustice to
Negros and forget about all Mankind.
LEVISON: Well here are a couple of sentences I wrote which
touch on this point.
WACHTEL Are you home MARTIN?
KING: No I am in Chicago now.
LEVISON (Returns to Phone) [Here] is one of my thoughts.
Im not urging a mechinacal merger of the Civil Rights
and Peace Movements I say there are moral Roots common to
Both.
WACHTEL: Well I think it is important that MARTIN take a
stand that He has not left Civil rights but as such says this
and so.
KING: Shouldn't there be some footnotes on some of my
statements that the Washington Post accuse me of being a liar.
on some of the statements I have made?
LEVISON; I agree with Martin that they should go in as
long as MARTIN has the sources.
WACHTEL Well can you have it ready.
KING: Well this reference t Million casualties I got from
RAMPARTS magazine on the Vietname children.
WACHTEL; Well it wouldn't impress me.
LEVISON I do not agree it isn't a bad publication.
KING: Well also the reference that I made that 25% of the Viet
Kong are communist I got that from BERNARD FALL.
WACHTEL; Well it may be from a different time.
KING that may be true but it has been said.
LEVSON Yes I say you are being too much legalistic harry.
WACHTEL: O.K. have Dora Call in the footnotes to my secretary.
and STAn and I wil be getting together tomorrow and we can document
this stuff.
WACHTEL: Now todays times has a great thing on the Negro
in the Service and you should look at that It's in
the New of the Week Section and Cor has figures
in the paper. Now will you be in Atlanta tomorrow night
MARTIN?
KING: Yes.
LEVISON; Now It seems to be the heart of the Attack of
the Post and the TIMES that you are not helping the Peace
movement and hurting the Civil Rights Movement
and that you are asserting that Civil Rights Gaines
can't be won while the War is won, and I know you have a
things in passing that sound just like that last thought
that you can't acomplish anything. I think you have to
clarify you stand that you "Dont assert that no progress
can be made in Civil Rights while the War is on and
the proff is th you are carrying on Your
Civil Rights activities while these statements are
being made by others. And it is a fact that the Reaction
and the others are furnished by the war with
the best excuse for scutteling the whole Civil Rights
Program.
KING that's Right.
Second MARTIN: Since the question has ben raised from seve
sections that BEVELS formulation that this is a RACIST
War. Don't you think that this should deal with this
directly that you do not hold with that.
KING I don't want to be on that stage debating with
BEVIL.
LEVISON; Well that is why I wanted you to say something
because you see it is very funny that you want to
take the responsibility of debating with [Bevel]
but he dosn't take the responsibility of debating
with you. He knows that you don't believe this. He knows
this is not your analysis.
KING Well It seem that all the other things I say
would deal with this without coming out and making
it appear that we are at logerheads at that mark.
WACHTEL; Well if you speak early you as an early speaker
can say you do not call this a Racist war.
KING: Well I would have to say too much I think the Future
wars will be aganist Non White People and you got to
face that fact either Latin America or Aisa.
Or Aisa. As MEARDALLPH) said in Madison SQ GArden that
this is a colored War which increases the Tension
LEVISON; Well I suggest that at this point that BEVILS answer
on this is that all the victims of colonialism are Colored th[at]
he is taking about old traditional impearialism. Today it
is the nice White Anglo Saxon Canadian who are objecting to our
domination of their economy and society. So it is not true
as it was. Im alking where the penetration of imperilism
is occuring and Racism is a component but not a sole
cause, the cause is economic.
KING; Now what about CASUS CLAY is there still kind of
hated by a lot of whites.
LEVISON; Yes I would say so.
WACHTEL: I would say if he ends up going to Jail it
isn't a clear cut issue he is going as one denied the
right of a Minister and not as thinking the war is
wrong.
KING I was asking for is my identification with him
somebody asked him to come to the march.
He dosn't want to march he dosn't want to march.
But wanted to come, and b the time he gets ther I
would be arriving and he would come up to the stage and
greet me or something.
LEVISON; I wouldn't do it Martin, it puts the freaks on your
side.
WACHTEL; He dosn't represent anything tat would be giving
you more at the ralley.
LEVISON; See BROWN is a different story even if he is a black
Nationalist the kids admire him but Clay is ...
WACHTEL I wouldn't mind it at a different place.
LEVISON; I wouldn't encourage it.
KING: Now about my speech how are we going to deal with my
getting it before Tuesday I leave for california at 4 someth
WACHTEL; We will telephonically dictate it.
LEVISON; Tuesday around 12 or 1 O'Clock it has got to
be ready. The basic Work Canot be done tomorrow night
it has to be done before that. O.K. Martin yo will be around
if questions come up tomorrow.
KING I will be in the office all day tomorrow.
End
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